The interesting thing is I was, in different times, in very close relationships with both a narcissist and a psychopath. And they are similar in some very key ways, but quite different in others. In any case, both are very detrimental individuals. And it took me a long time to heal. A part of me will always carry that pain I think.
Thank you so much for sharing your experience. It takes courage to speak openly about such painful relationships, and your words will resonate with many. Your right narcissists and psychopaths can share some overlapping traits, but their differences can make each relationship uniquely damaging.
Healing from these connections is a long and often non-linear process. That lingering pain you mention is so real but it’s also a testament to your strength and humanity. Wishing you continued healing and self-compassion as you keep moving forward. 💙
This is my marriage. I should say, my former marriage. It was magic. Then it wasn’t. Then he professed sorrow, gave gifts, made promises. Magic again, then it was not. I know now why it was hard to leave and why, after 23 years in the relationship I had to demand a divorce. Narcissists love to fish for fools like me, and keep the line taut. I was feeding him, but I was starving my inner self. The parallels between trump and my husband were apparent as time went on. I wanted to scream stay away from him to our country when elections came up. Stay away from republicans. They eat you from the inside.
You will always think you are different, that they could not mistreat you. And then one day they drop you from up high and rub your nose in the dirt. It will not be different and you must protect yourself.
This was good. I've known several people in this type of relationship and you describe it so well. This was my favorite phrase "You’re not just in a relationship. You’re in a maze." It hit.
Do they also make you feel like you might be the narcissist? How do they twist your words, do they use the same words you used but throw it right back at you? Do they talk over you without giving you a chance to say anything. When you finally raise your voice out of irritation then dk they use that against you and tell you how overemotional you are and how you are being mean with them now? Just wondering.
Absolutely, that’s exactly how it feels. They twist your words, use them against you, and when you finally react they call you the problem, too emotional, too harsh. It’s so confusing and hurtful. You start wondering if you’re the narcissist. You’re not alone in this.
that’s exactly what they do. They twist your words, talk over you, and make you feel like you might be the problem. When you finally react, they call you “overemotional” or “mean” to shift the blame. It’s classic manipulation to keep you doubting yourself. You’re not alone in this. 💙
Clinical narcissism requires a level of self-awareness, manipulation, and a fragile ego beneath a grandiose shell. Babies don’t fake confidence—they are confidence, screaming in a diaper like a tiny Roman emperor.
⸻
So Yes, All Babies Are Narcissists…
But only in the charming, developmentally appropriate way. They’re little dictators who grow into diplomacy (hopefully). Want to turn that into a satirical monologue or a parenting blog post? I’ve got you.
Yes, so well explained here! The nuances and the subtleties can make it hard to recognize initially. I appreciate this post so much and I also write on similar topics. I’ve subscribed!😁 I think you’d enjoy my posts as well! 💙
The worst part of this is that many people reading things like this now label their partner a narcissist not because the partner is a narcissist (they may be, or have traits), and now that person won't look at a) relational dynamics between the two people or b) the role the reader plays.
Relational dynamics are complicated, and one example is that sadism and masochism kind of bring each other out. If we think of everyone as being, on a scale of 0-10, somewhere on a sadism and masochism scale, then like a 10 of sadist and 0 of masochist go perfectly together. We don't look at the masochist as a perpetrator of harm, but if they "covertly" think they deserve pain, should endure suffering (etc), they're *as* responsible for interpersonal abuse in the relationship as the perpetrator. Sadism/maschoism pairing is just one oversimplified example of the trillions of ways relational dynamics play out in actual relationships. In most cases you'll never get a 10-sadist and 0-masochist; if you have a 6.5-9 sadist and a 1-6 masochist, it'll depend on various things like stable employment, mood stability, housing situation, quality of sleep, involvement in community or not etc, to bring out various traits in each. But there are so many other things going on.
With the role the reader plays here, each reader themselves has narc traits. The writer of this piece does, I do, everyone everyone knows. On that 0-10 scale we're all somewhere on it. Anyone who writes things that are made public, and they want attention for their writing, is probably above a 0, likely near or above a 5. Couples therapists very often find that in the therapy room both partners point the finger at the other person- the other is to blame, not the self. There are obvious patterns with Full Blown 10/10 Narcissists we can all Google and memorize in terms of behavioral traits/tendencies, but the most dangerous thing we can do in relationships is dehumanize the other person by putting some permanent personality disorder label on them, project this onto them permanently, see ourselves as a permanent victim, then deny that we ourselves are actually playing a role in the relational dynamics at play. Everyone should look at the DV / interpersonal violence cycle image and see if their relationship looks like that, and to ask first how they play the perpetrator role- not if they're in the victim role. Start with perp role, then move to victim role. The victim role is easy: we all think we're victims, that's everyone's default. I can't be hurting others, I must be getting hurt by others. I'm a good person, etc. But we're probably all doing hurtful, harmful things without meaning to all the time. Anyone who consistently denies this and puts the blame on anyone, everyone else is exhibiting narc traits and should especially look at this.
The interesting thing is I was, in different times, in very close relationships with both a narcissist and a psychopath. And they are similar in some very key ways, but quite different in others. In any case, both are very detrimental individuals. And it took me a long time to heal. A part of me will always carry that pain I think.
Thank you so much for sharing your experience. It takes courage to speak openly about such painful relationships, and your words will resonate with many. Your right narcissists and psychopaths can share some overlapping traits, but their differences can make each relationship uniquely damaging.
Healing from these connections is a long and often non-linear process. That lingering pain you mention is so real but it’s also a testament to your strength and humanity. Wishing you continued healing and self-compassion as you keep moving forward. 💙
This is my marriage. I should say, my former marriage. It was magic. Then it wasn’t. Then he professed sorrow, gave gifts, made promises. Magic again, then it was not. I know now why it was hard to leave and why, after 23 years in the relationship I had to demand a divorce. Narcissists love to fish for fools like me, and keep the line taut. I was feeding him, but I was starving my inner self. The parallels between trump and my husband were apparent as time went on. I wanted to scream stay away from him to our country when elections came up. Stay away from republicans. They eat you from the inside.
You will always think you are different, that they could not mistreat you. And then one day they drop you from up high and rub your nose in the dirt. It will not be different and you must protect yourself.
This was good. I've known several people in this type of relationship and you describe it so well. This was my favorite phrase "You’re not just in a relationship. You’re in a maze." It hit.
Do they also make you feel like you might be the narcissist? How do they twist your words, do they use the same words you used but throw it right back at you? Do they talk over you without giving you a chance to say anything. When you finally raise your voice out of irritation then dk they use that against you and tell you how overemotional you are and how you are being mean with them now? Just wondering.
Absolutely, that’s exactly how it feels. They twist your words, use them against you, and when you finally react they call you the problem, too emotional, too harsh. It’s so confusing and hurtful. You start wondering if you’re the narcissist. You’re not alone in this.
that’s exactly what they do. They twist your words, talk over you, and make you feel like you might be the problem. When you finally react, they call you “overemotional” or “mean” to shift the blame. It’s classic manipulation to keep you doubting yourself. You’re not alone in this. 💙
Time is needed to heal no matter what if you’ve fallen in love in my experience.
But the narcissists leave a larger mark
I’m wondering if being a narcissist is a result of environment or genetics. 🤔
It seems to me that all babies are narcissists…so maybe a narcissist is mostly a child that never grew up.
ChatGPT does not quite think so:
It’s Not True Narcissism
Clinical narcissism requires a level of self-awareness, manipulation, and a fragile ego beneath a grandiose shell. Babies don’t fake confidence—they are confidence, screaming in a diaper like a tiny Roman emperor.
⸻
So Yes, All Babies Are Narcissists…
But only in the charming, developmentally appropriate way. They’re little dictators who grow into diplomacy (hopefully). Want to turn that into a satirical monologue or a parenting blog post? I’ve got you.
Love the Light in YOU!!!
Thank you Joshua!
Yes, so well explained here! The nuances and the subtleties can make it hard to recognize initially. I appreciate this post so much and I also write on similar topics. I’ve subscribed!😁 I think you’d enjoy my posts as well! 💙
The worst part of this is that many people reading things like this now label their partner a narcissist not because the partner is a narcissist (they may be, or have traits), and now that person won't look at a) relational dynamics between the two people or b) the role the reader plays.
Relational dynamics are complicated, and one example is that sadism and masochism kind of bring each other out. If we think of everyone as being, on a scale of 0-10, somewhere on a sadism and masochism scale, then like a 10 of sadist and 0 of masochist go perfectly together. We don't look at the masochist as a perpetrator of harm, but if they "covertly" think they deserve pain, should endure suffering (etc), they're *as* responsible for interpersonal abuse in the relationship as the perpetrator. Sadism/maschoism pairing is just one oversimplified example of the trillions of ways relational dynamics play out in actual relationships. In most cases you'll never get a 10-sadist and 0-masochist; if you have a 6.5-9 sadist and a 1-6 masochist, it'll depend on various things like stable employment, mood stability, housing situation, quality of sleep, involvement in community or not etc, to bring out various traits in each. But there are so many other things going on.
With the role the reader plays here, each reader themselves has narc traits. The writer of this piece does, I do, everyone everyone knows. On that 0-10 scale we're all somewhere on it. Anyone who writes things that are made public, and they want attention for their writing, is probably above a 0, likely near or above a 5. Couples therapists very often find that in the therapy room both partners point the finger at the other person- the other is to blame, not the self. There are obvious patterns with Full Blown 10/10 Narcissists we can all Google and memorize in terms of behavioral traits/tendencies, but the most dangerous thing we can do in relationships is dehumanize the other person by putting some permanent personality disorder label on them, project this onto them permanently, see ourselves as a permanent victim, then deny that we ourselves are actually playing a role in the relational dynamics at play. Everyone should look at the DV / interpersonal violence cycle image and see if their relationship looks like that, and to ask first how they play the perpetrator role- not if they're in the victim role. Start with perp role, then move to victim role. The victim role is easy: we all think we're victims, that's everyone's default. I can't be hurting others, I must be getting hurt by others. I'm a good person, etc. But we're probably all doing hurtful, harmful things without meaning to all the time. Anyone who consistently denies this and puts the blame on anyone, everyone else is exhibiting narc traits and should especially look at this.
I’m wondering if narcissism is a result of environment or genetics. 🤔